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This centuries Yom Kippur War kicked off late

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 12 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
The problem for France, along with the UK is its history in the area is a rather spotty one.

We should really have left the Holy land alone after WW2 and just given the Jews a big chunk of Germany on a take it or leave it basis. Imagine Smile


Imagine if East Germany was Israel (in an alternative timeline) so instead of being surrounded by angry Arabs they were instead the focal point of the Cold War Shocked I can see the Soviets riling up the remaining German population and the Americans supplying the arms to keep 'em down Sad
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:46 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


Imagine if East Germany was Israel (in an alternative timeline) so instead of being surrounded by angry Arabs they were instead the focal point of the Cold War Shocked I can see the Soviets riling up the remaining German population and the Americans supplying the arms to keep 'em down Sad


Well, it was actually an idea first put forward by King Faizal of Saudi Arabia. He thought the Holy land would just be a perpetual f-up and it made nore sense to displace Germans as they had more responsibility towards the Jews.


Anyway on a more contemporary note. I noticed Grant (wtf do i actually do) Schaps is trying to sell the notion there are Brits held by Hamas. Presumably to get support amongst us Brits in the event Israel goes full jackboot in the `Strip.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The term 'Jack Boot' is so Donk/imger-esque.

"Gaza and Jerusalem
CNN

Israel’s military has warned 1.1 million people living in northern Gaza to evacuate their homes, amid signs Israel is set to ramp up its retaliatory offensive against Hamas following the group’s October 7 terror attacks."

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/13/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-friday-intl-hnk/index.html

The UN aye plead with those who were attacked, which initiated a reprisal. (More like stopping Hamas in its Sandals from launching any more of their shite.)

Israel has given the North of the strip a notice.

That's 100% more than Hamas offered Israel.

Painting a defending nation as an aggressor loses any credibility of the UN.

Israel hold back 24/7/52.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://i.redd.it/kgnq4ichxrtb1.jpg
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about Vichy France as a Jewish homeland? Nice weather, access to the med, the nazi frogs can be relocated Thinking
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the coverage our media gives it is very telling. The second anybody dares to mention 'context', they are shut down. We don't know what really happened over there nor will we ever know - I did read that the attack was in retaliation for a specific land grab and desecration of a mosque, and that the Israel left the door open in the hope that something nasty would take place and that they'd then have the excuse they need in the eyes of the world to flatten Gaza completely. I guess we'll never know the truth of it...
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting article from the Irish Times regarding the deployment of Black and Tans in Palestine.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/winston-churchill-sent-the-black-and-tans-to-palestine-1.3089140

One interesting segment:

Officers who had served in Ireland played a prominent role in quelling protests by Palestinians against the expropriation of land where they lived and farmed. Raymond Cafferata, for example, had been part of the Auxiliaries during the Irish War of Independence. In 1933, he headed a contingent of foot police at a Jaffa demonstration which had been banned. A baton charge that he ordered was commended by British administration in Jerusalem for being “magnificently executed” despite how numerous Palestinians were shot dead during the protest.

Later in the 1930s, a full-scale Palestinian revolt erupted. Grattan Bushe, a legal adviser to the Colonial Office, warned that “repression by force is repeating the mistake which was made in Ireland”. His warning was ignored; military commanders were assured that they could take “whatever measures are necessary”. The measures were to include demolishing much of Jaffa’s old city, imposing collective punishment on villages with rebels in their midst and mass detention in labour camps.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I think the coverage our media gives it is very telling. The second anybody dares to mention 'context', they are shut down. We don't know what really happened over there nor will we ever know - I did read that the attack was in retaliation for a specific land grab and desecration of a mosque, and that the Israel left the door open in the hope that something nasty would take place and that they'd then have the excuse they need in the eyes of the world to flatten Gaza completely. I guess we'll never know the truth of it...


I don't think we need to consider any conspiracy theories, its a hundred plus years old s#1t show. Vicious religious zealotry, political opportunism, ingrained historic and contemporary racism, on and on in perpetuity.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
I don't think we need to consider any conspiracy theories, its a hundred three thousand plus years old s#1t show. Vicious religious zealotry, political opportunism, ingrained historic and contemporary racism, on and on in perpetuity.


FTFY Neutral
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


FTFY Neutral


Im looking at it from a simple British perspective, only relevant from when we became a colonial power in the area. We were in mud huts when it all started.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah! So what you're say is...™

...blame the Ottomans Wink
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Diggs wrote:
Israel left the door open in the hope that something nasty would take place and that they'd then have the excuse they need in the eyes of the world to flatten Gaza completely. I guess we'll never know the truth of it...


I don't think we need to consider any conspiracy theories, its a hundred plus years old s#1t show. Vicious religious zealotry, political opportunism, ingrained historic and contemporary racism, on and on in perpetuity.

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's an important question that has been asked even in the mainstream since the attack. We're meant to believe Mossad had no idea and the IDF were mysteriously MIA, in one of the most closely surveilled and guarded places on earth.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'leaving the door open' political/military tactics is a poor conspiracy theory. Weak as Hamas Defence against the most advanced armed force in the region.
It simple suicidal jihadist fundamentalist behaviour.
Fuck you lot over there and fuck our lot over here coz we know they will be in a better place after martyrdom.
Idiots.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 13 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so everyone is clear on what a genuine border incursion looks like:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16E9/production/_131356850_088483023.jpg.webp
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F70sFpiXAAEgiWx.jpg:large
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Border? Perhaps depends on who created it whether its considered a border or something quite different.

Impressive parking choice though Laughing
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 08:14 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably the worlds best intelligence agency (Mossad) and one of the worlds most advanced armies, didnt see this coming and had no quick response that day...

and now Israel is free to commit war crimes because theyre "Gods chosen".
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MCN
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PostPosted: 08:23 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:
probably the worlds best intelligence agency (Mossad) and one of the worlds most advanced armies, didnt see this coming and had no quick response that day...

and now Israel is free to commit war crimes because theyre "Gods chosen".


War Crimes?

What war isn't a Crime?

It all depends on who wins the war.

Nothing to do with much else.

And Israel are way ahead on points so far.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
to v or not to v wrote:
probably the worlds best intelligence agency (Mossad) and one of the worlds most advanced armies, didnt see this coming and had no quick response that day...

and now Israel is free to commit war crimes because theyre "Gods chosen".


War Crimes?

What war isn't a Crime?

It all depends on who wins the war.

Nothing to do with much else.

And Israel are way ahead on points so far.


Exactly, although I'd add that it also depends on who is shouting loudest in the propoganda war.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only difference I see in the Hamas support is "killing babies is a good thing" and "killing babies never happened" Thinking

https://i.imgflip.com/82jpxl.jpg
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current Hamas charter.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Easy-X"]The only difference I see in the Hamas support is "killing babies is a good thing" and "killing babies never happened" Thinking

The more i look into the issue of Israel the more im coming round to the view that the creation of Israel was a way European powers wriggled out of their responsibility towards Jews after centuries of anti-Semitism. I think the extremism of Hamas actions are entirely predictable when you look at how extreme the action of a colonial power mandating the creation of a state is. The whole thing is mad when you look closer at it and doomed to failure in every way you can measure failure.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:34 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Africa's much the same, so many straight lines on the map.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 14 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
The only difference I see in the Hamas support is "killing babies is a good thing" and "killing babies never happened" Thinking

The more i look into the issue of Israel the more im coming round to the view that the creation of Israel was a way European powers wriggled out of their responsibility towards Jews after centuries of anti-Semitism. I think the extremism of Hamas actions are entirely predictable when you look at how extreme the action of a colonial power mandating the creation of a state is. The whole thing is mad when you look closer at it and doomed to failure in every way you can measure failure.


The Jews forced the hand of Britain. The ss. Exodus put us in an untenable situation and the rest of europe walked away and left us to it. Of course what ever we did we were wrong. In hind sight we should have done the same and just walked away from the whole thing and let the Jews rot but actually, amazingly considering how we as a country are now slagged of by everyone including our own citizens (Ribenapigeon, you I'm looking at) we actually tried to find a solution where everyone else was just passing the buck.

Now look at what's happening. Demos here slagging off Israel even though they are the ones that have had their people killed. Corbyn rubbing his hands and loving the Isralea hate (this person could have actually been our PM Shocked ). What a proper shit show.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/exodus-1947
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 15 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
The only difference I see in the Hamas support is "killing babies is a good thing" and "killing babies never happened" Thinking

The more i look into the issue of Israel the more im coming round to the view that the creation of Israel was a way European powers wriggled out of their responsibility towards Jews after centuries of anti-Semitism. I think the extremism of Hamas actions are entirely predictable when you look at how extreme the action of a colonial power mandating the creation of a state is. The whole thing is mad when you look closer at it and doomed to failure in every way you can measure failure.


The Jews forced the hand of Britain. The ss. Exodus put us in an untenable situation and the rest of europe walked away and left us to it. Of course what ever we did we were wrong. In hind sight we should have done the same and just walked away from the whole thing and let the Jews rot but actually, amazingly considering how we as a country are now slagged of by everyone including our own citizens (Ribenapigeon, you I'm looking at) we actually tried to find a solution where everyone else was just passing the buck.

Now look at what's happening. Demos here slagging off Israel even though they are the ones that have had their people killed. Corbyn rubbing his hands and loving the Isralea hate (this person could have actually been our PM Shocked ). What a proper shit show.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/exodus-1947


I dont "slag off" my country, im part of a sensible tradition of critical self inquiry, something which makes the difference between being a nation or a cult.

As for 1948 and trying to cast the UKs actions then as an honest seeking of a solution to post war European problem it was nothing of the sort. European countries had been trying to sort "the Jewish problem" , an entirely racist phantom issue, for generations. Poland along with the French had been planning moving its Jews to Madagascar for instance, a plan that was only abandoned because of the practical difficulties of moving huge numbers of people. What everyone is left with in the contemporary situation is a perfect example of why colonialism is a bad thing. Of course there's little that cab done about it, what has been done is done we can no more go back on the creation of Israel than we could redraw the lines on the map that define the partition of India. That doesn't mean we have to support a vengeance based response to the evils of Hamas violence. There is a smug attitude of entitlement that pervades the Israeli attitude which I have no truck with and makes me uncomfortable with supporting them.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 15 Oct 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Jeremy Corbyn has actually said about the situation:

https://jacobin.com/2023/10/jeremy-corbyn-israel-palestine-gaza-occupation-starmer-civilians

Hardly some rabble rousing blood thirsty polemic.

The opening paragraph reads:

"In July 2023, I spoke in Parliament after the Israeli Defense Force conducted their largest military operation on the West Bank since 2002. Their target was Jenin refugee camp, home to more than fourteen thousand people, living in less than half a square kilometer. In a space this densely populated, there is no such thing as targeted strikes. Twelve Palestinians were killed, including five children, and more than one hundred were injured. I pleaded with MPs on both sides of the House of Commons to consider not just the immediate human cost of this attack, but the chain reaction of misery and terror that it would unleash."

Prophetic words.
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